PS: The point here is NOT that poor people shouldn’t have kids, it’s that no one should be having kids without having the basics of childcare covered, which necessitates widespread systemic, societal, and economic change so that no parent needs to worry about those basics, and kids can grow up in secure, healthy environments. I completely forgot to mention this when I originally posted it, and that’s my bad.
Having children is biologically safest for parents and children at younger ages. Having children young isn’t the issue. Having a system that hoards wealth for a master class at the expense of society is. We need to abort the billionaire class - it shouldn’t exist. Resource hoarding creates poverty.
This is far too much “breeding is a privilege for the rich” for my tastes. Touch too much Eugenics.
“Just don’t have kids” is a horrible solution.
“fix the system so people can make their own choices about having kids” is the actual solution.
Thats the point of the post. The user calling out “selfish is doing too much work” is saying that its not the individual who is to blame, its society.
if you look at destructdisc’s post history that is definitely not the point. they are a childfree instagram edgelord hot take monger.
Not the lemmy user, the actual image they posted. That phrase is in the graphic. Seems like the lemmy user didnt actually understand the image they posted then, but i dont follow users like that, im just looking at this one post
unfortunately they post like 90% of the content here so it’s hard not to notice.
idk the wealthy seem to be plenty pissed about the poors not breeding enough. Seems like good leverage.
You can tell who is from the USA and who isn’t in here.
The USA ain’t fixing shit anytime soon. People here are still trying to figure who gets to pee in which bathroom and if teaching is a real job.
Where does that mean I’m from? 🤔
What’s simpler
-
Just don’t have kids and cope with the face that it’s not the best solution
-
fix the system
That depends on how much someone wants kids.
Either one could be very complicated.
The real solution is acrually this:
- Dont have kids because you must cope with the fact that the majority of humanity is OK with this stupid , inhuman system THATS why most humans have not risen up substantially to change the system.
Youre welcome 😁
-
Kinda wild to go on a childfree forum and be surprised people primarily talk about not having kids for various reasons.
And yes, being unable to afford them is a good reason to not have kids. Yes, eugenics also targets the poor. A broken clock is right twice a day.
The rich want poor to have kids so they have more chattel. I don’t think it’s eugenics at all, the rich wouldn’t know what to do with fewer wage slaves.
Skip having kids, even if you want to, just to own the rich? 🤔
Gonna be honest, I had hoped there would have been a revolution by now lmao. In this current society? Yeah, I’m not having kids just so they can grow up and have to work for assholes.
well ya.
If I told you that I was gonna hire a politican or group of politicans to ‘Epstein’ and rob your child every day that they worked for me(YES even after theyve become an adult) … why in the fuck would you have that child?!
THATS literally the world we live in today.
AND also better yet , after Ive ‘Epsteined’ them and robbed them…I can just blow them up instead if I feel like it! We see thst happening with abandon all over Colombia , The Congo, Sudan, PAlestine , Lebanon, Iram, Yemen, Syria, etc… (theblist is almost endless)
AND better yet, after Ive done all those horrible tjings to them , how about I also destroy their life and livelihoods with climate change. Ill be fine in my multipurpose military yacht or my spaceship or my militarized mansion on the mountains . The IPCC has already confirmed that even if we stop using GHGs as I type tjis we shall live im an nearly. apocalyptic world for the next 50-200 years!
Okay… But there’s so much more to life than that.
People work jobs they enjoy, have relationships, have experiences and generally love living.
To arbitrarily deny someone existence because of a shadow focused view of the world or an imagined joyless experience is at best pessimistic and at worst a projection of the parents fears onto the imaginary child.
I shouldn’t exist. Due to medical complications during pregnancy my mother was advised to abort me. She gave birth to me and instead raised me badly 🤣
I’m glad that’s the way it happened. Life is hard sometimes but it’s also wonderful a lot of the time.
The issues you name are real, as real as the joys and pleasures of existence.
There’s a reason even mad Max fights to survive. Because even that world is better than not existing. If he wasn’t born, he doesn’t get to make that choice.
OK it was JOYFUL for YOU
YOU can go on with your life and be joyful with YOUR joyful life. Have fun buddy I guess 🤷🏿♂️
As for me? Ive been robbed, shot at, socially isolated due to the color of my skin and my poorness , left broke even after working long hours, and other awful things that have made me very bitter , and very VERY deranged. A person like me cannot be happy in a world like what we have created today and bbecause Im not happy I feel that my child will also be as unhappy as I am(and seeing as how I am actually surprisingly poorer than my parents ? Im pretty fucking sure that Im fucking right)
Also knowing how idiotic I am? I cannot guarantee that child will be alive by the time theyre an adult . I have done many stupid things that havve almost granted me a Darwin Award… So what would happen to my child if they accompanied me on those things?
And there are people all over the planet just like me … And youre tellling us tto put a child under our care?..
So YES I am clearly justified in denying my aethereal child from suffering all the BS I have suffered or that they could suffer under my care. And also denying my aethereal children from suffering of all the awful shit I have read of on the news.
Also its been shown that unhappy people like me tend to not have children anyways : https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5505668/
…Also …mad max is a fucking movie…it doesnt apply to real life…wot?!
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Stfu and log off instead of spreading your ignorant privilege all over the Internet.
Well I am in therapy.
To inflict the pain, anxiety, and suffering a childhood in poverty brings on a person because you wanted unprotected sex is pretty fuckin selfish. You are who the meme is talking about.
I’m sure there’s a few weirdos that think this but it’s not generally true.
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Well the main reason you shouldn’t have kids is because this world is going down to shit at an accelerating pace.
Between climate collapse, life extinction, resources exhaustion and AI dystopia, where do you see your kids in 20, 30, 40 years? Dead from starvation? Enslaved by oligarchs? Can you see a good life fort them in the horizon?
My kid is a teenager and I already feel like she’s living the best of their life already. From their adult life, I can only see it go down.
Personally, I think future generations are fine as long as they apply themselves and hobby hop and as long as we reinforce and appreciate the tenacity behind their hobby hopping.
When I was growing up there was no 3D printing, you weren’t able to just make a dropshipping hobby and advertise on youtube like it was fucking nothing, I think twitch was just becoming a thing but the amount of money and influencers wasn’t like it is now, hell influencers weren’t a thing. It also looks like people adapt easily in today’s world. I’m not worried about anything, they all have their adaptations and ways of doing their lives and that’s fine.
I think it’s good to leave a door of hope open for the next generations.
But as I’ve always said: What could get worse, can always get better. 😀
From their adult life, I can only see it go down.
Gotta keep the whimsy going
your kids
i think a good question to ask yourself is: would you like to be born in today’s time? if not, then probably neither does your child.
Feel free to end it i guess. Oh no? Oh ok, but you want to decide for others?
first of all i never wanted to decide for others; i just proposed a question to help people to decide for themselves.
Suicide ain’t equivalent to never existing in the first place.
You suck
It’s not ending a life, it’s not breeding
You’re a classic example of a stupid breeder, incapable of anything more than a childish, knee-jerk reaction bereft of thought
Lmao. Talk about dragging the ladder up after oneself.
Many people have and we have the most depressed people ever? Thanks for the shove to them I guess? Just because the people who haven’t don’t want to doesn’t mean they want to grow up in current times. Would I rather exist or be tiktok obsessed depressed and ai-addicted? Legitimately hard to say. Lucky for me I’m none of those, but it would be a near unwinnable battle for my kids.
This discussion is hard and society is still not ready for it.
There are absolutely a lot of people that should not be bringing children into this world.
If as a society we’re going to say “it’s a fundamental right to breed”, then we need to fucking fix society so that every child brought into this world is guaranteed the opportunity for success. That means universal public healthcare, universal public education through college, universal access to nutrition…just to start.
Our current system is nothing like that. Once a kid is born today, if their parents suck then they’re just fucked, and maybe that kid should have tried being born to better parents.
In a system designed to opress, and only function on oppression, is it really the parents fault for being trapped in said oppression? And I wouldn’t even fault them for choosing to have a child atm, because that’s mostly been removed as a choice.
I would.
If you willingly make someone suffer through a system you know will oppress them, that’s abuse.
I mean because abortion is being restricted and denied. There’s no option, in that case.
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Thinking about childrens’ futures breaks my heart
PS: The point here is NOT that poor people shouldn’t have kids,
You may not think that’s the point, but that is the ultimate effect of your words.
I’d see it more like “Poor people shouldn’t exist”.
But as in “We need a society where nobody is considered poor and everybody is provided for”
Ever notice these conversations always center around the poor. Articles and comments never scold the rich for not providing loving or mentally and emotionally healthy environments for their children. They can produce little affluent sociopaths all day every day and it’s cool because they have money. As long as they aren’t actively and visibly abusive to their children they’ll never lose custody (and sometimes not even then). But the poor regularly have their kids taken for not having enough resources while we tisk tisk them for the crime of not being born privileged.
Which is why child welfare is so important
There’s a reason why wild animals frequently don’t reproduce in captivity.
Humans don’t tend to do it very well either.
The issue here is that in a proper society, child care is a societal burden and not just a personal one. Meaning that in a proper society, both the rich and the poor can raise children properly and not let the child suffer.
Imagine a society where only the rich reproduce… That is arguably just as fucked up just in a different way.
“in a proper society”.
Well there’s your problem…
“It is no measure of health to be seen as ‘healthy’ or ‘well-adjusted’ in societies so profoundly sick”
Im never having kids because I cant afford them, sure, but that doesn’t mean you ought to have to pay to live, if the world were different I’d have children in a heartbeat
the op argument is a pathway to eugenics, child removal, and punishing people for living
also the doctor who did my vasectomy literally said if you have kids, you tend to figure it out as he completed the procedure lol
Yep families have figured it out since the beginning of time. Unlike the younger people today who think anyone born before them had life handed to them. Throughout history most people have lived subsistence lives.
“Poor people should go extinct”
I mean considering the alternative is they don’t have access to food, housing, healthcare, and are essentially forced by circumstance to either become criminals or throw themselves into the meat grinder.
Now I don’t even like arguing this anymore since reproductive rights in my neck of the woods have gone away, but you can’t seriously think that giving a kid a miserable, painful life is better than not having a kid at all
I can, actually. Mostly because even growing up in poverty is rarely just a “miserable, painful life” even somewhere like Burkina Faso but also because collectively providing for the next generation is a thing that we should be constantly pushing for, culturally and publicly. Because without a future there is nothing to fight for, without youth there is nobody to care for the old, without fresh eyes there is no passion for change.
I can’t help it. I’m glad to be infertile. Children born right now would inevitably face the extreme results of a climate crisis, depleting fresh water stores, the global sociopolitical breakdown currently happening in favor of far right fascists funded by billionaires, and everything that comes with that.
I feel we are past the point of no return and am confident that I will probably die before the absolute worst of it, but my generation’s children would not. I have never been more afraid for children in my life, and there are many in my own little village. I just do not and cannot foresee a future where this gets better, with as powerless as we are against surveillance and military technology. As nihilistic as it sounds, we are speedrunning extinction and the guard rails are gone. I do not want to see children suffer for it, and especially not my own.
If you truly believed that everything can only get worse from here I don’t know why you’re still here, frankly.
Edit: I’ll elaborate. You will die before the worst of it. We all will. I went to school for ecology, I know how grim things are. Worsening climate crises are going to push desperate people out of increasingly hot and arid regions into places with more fresh water and that will cause terrible conflicts. We’re driving a mass extinction event that’s making the leaderboards. (I don’t think we’re hitting K-T numbers without nuclear war but it’s gonna be bad.)
But we also, as a species, bounced back from a 98% population loss that lasted a hundred thousand years. And that was Stone Age technology. I have the utmost faith in our adaptability and I’m pretty confident humanity will survive our own bullshit. Further, I don’t think morality enters into it. Life is amoral. Existence is amoral. The ability to contemplate the nature of existence does not elevate us above that amorality. So I’m not throwing in the towel.
Whew that’s a windy way to tell me to kill myself huh, and to your elaboration: someone else’s kids can get knocked back to the Stone Age to repopulate the earth if we’re as like cockroaches as you believe. Not mine though.
No like why are you here, why bother with society if it’s doomed and miserable? Why make connections that will amount to nothing? Why not live as a hermit or descend into unbridled hedonism?
You mean why am I here if I’m not going to shit out babies and force them into an impossible situation? Why are you here asking fucking moronic questions when the community is labeled childfree? We all make choices
Unironically, yes. So should rich people. If we do that one first we can do the other one pretty easily.
Fuck off eco-fascist <3
I’m anarcho-stupid thank you very much.
One way or the other isn’t that the goal? We should lift people out of poverty right? Why should poverty persist?
We absolutely should but that’s a conversation for a future-minded community.
Mr. Strawman, is that you?
This was a better point (in the US) before Roe v Wade got overturned honestly
Well poor people should NOT have kids, because kids are not a good that you have to suit your needs.
Growing up poor stunts you severely. Make a good nest egg first.
