Lol. If that is your issue with newer Trek, why do you list DS9 as great? Or (later) TNG? VOY is boring, unnecessarily devoid of most character development but still carried much interpersonal conflict. LMAO.
DS9’s interpersonal conflict were in context of being set on the outer fringe of Starfleet’s reach, showing how the goodness could be brought forth to where there’s conflict, where the ideals of the federation and starfleet have not yet reached and settled. None of Trek, from the start, was that everything is effortlessly hunky-dory la-la land positivity-ninnyism across the cultures of different species… it’s not all magically balanced already without effort. There’s great effort to balance and achieve peace, so we can all explore space, both inner and outer, together, forever, in peace.
Note the absence of interpersonal conflict among those of the federation? Even where there’s tension, the peace is kept, and friendships form. It’s not juvenile insanity. Even for those who set out to go into starfleet (or not), like with Nog and Jake. It’s still an aspirational hope for the future, even in interpersonal relations. Instead of the tension that is allowed, across the different species of aliens, being solely who are met by the crew of the star ship Enterprise, everybody’s brought together on the space station, Deep Space 9, with no running away. Everybody there, seeking a better future, even the antagonists, in their own way. Well considered characters, with their own perspectives and philosophies. RedLetterMedia recently did a quick two part run through of season 1 of DS9, in which they touch on some of these well thought out fun aspects: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5ozNRUW7Kwhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXYFrc1-ES8
VOY’s little rubs of interpersonal conflict here and there, were almost entirely from the Maquis and Starfleet, learning to get along, forced together by circumstance. Generally more strictly in line with the principles of Star Trek, the same structure as Gene gave us, the crew get along (quite astonishingly, really, considering the radically different views the two crews have, ~ that they become one crew… how about that for putting aside the differences? We should all so aspire.).
Maybe I’d need to rewatch TNG to get what you’re on about there. I don’t recall TNG having nearly every line of dialogue be spitting foul mouthed adhominems in searing hateful tones, like SFA has. Nor even any such lines at all. But maybe I’m misremembering. It has been a few years (… Gosh, maybe about 7 or more years) since I last watched all of TNG. But I could understand the writers taking the cheap easy way out once slipped free from the living reigns of Gene Roddenberry.
Later TNG, DS9, VOY, may have pushed the boundaries. They didn’t betray the boundaries that defined what Trek is. They stayed consistent in that universe.
I haven’t watched Academy or care to do so. But thinking there was no interpersonal conflict between Starfleet personnel before or attribute it to being stationed in a borderland… DS9 started with interpersonal conflict between Sisko and Picard. The very appeal of DS9 was a commander/captain who defied Roddenberry’s principles. It doesn’t matter if that was explained with certain circumstances, it matters that that was part of why DS9 was good (being excellently written didn’t do damage either).
I don’t recall TNG having nearly every line of dialogue be spitting foul mouthed adhominems in searing hateful tones, like SFA has.
I didn’t state anything in that direction, and I couldn’t (since I haven’t watched Academy). I stated that TNG was best when interpersonal conflict was the vessel the writers conveyed the discussion of philosophies. Or just told interesting stories with.
I don’t recall TNG having nearly every line of dialogue be spitting foul mouthed adhominems in searing hateful tones, like SFA has.
I didn’t state anything in that direction,
My reductio-absurdist over-emphasis of the other side, aside, it was interpreted as strongly implied (stated by context) in:
What an atrocious affront to the guiding principles Gene Roddenberry put in place. No interpersonal conflict??
Lol. If that is your issue with newer Trek, why do you list DS9 as great? Or (later) TNG? VOY is boring, unnecessarily devoid of most character development but still carried much interpersonal conflict. LMAO.
and, given
and I couldn’t (since I haven’t watched Academy)
might be why that was missed what I was referring to. Give it a go. You’ll see.
I stated that TNG was best when interpersonal conflict was the vessel the writers conveyed the discussion of philosophies.
I don’t see heated and impassioned debate about the morality, metaphysics, philosophy, spirituality, ethics etc as interpersonal conflict. … But like I say, it’s been a few years, maybe I need to rewatch TNG’s later seasons to get an idea of what interpersonal conflict is there that you’re referring to.
PS, if you want character development in VOY, look to Kes (at least in her penultimate 2 episodes), 7of9, Tom Paris, B’Lana Torres, Harry Kim, and the Doctor. … Oh wait, that’s most characters. But yeah, is much like the ship, near blown to smithereens and then next episode, reset back to normal like nothing happened. DS9’s character growths was stronger, as was more the intent with it, than to have a consistent platform for starship space exploration stories[1]. But even after O’Brian spent several simulated years in a prison, he seemed back to normal next episode. Yeah, there’s lots to pick at it each, if you really want to go out of your way to break the suspension of disbelief and break out of it, and into critical analysis. Harder work to get into suspension of disbelief with the KurtzmanTrek.
[1: weird side idea...]
it’s kinda like how western tropical astrology moved the dial to fit the people, and eastern sidereal moved the dial to fit the stars. ~ okay, weird esoteric side notion. n_n
I don’t see heated and impassioned debate about the morality, metaphysics, philosophy, spirituality, ethics etc as interpersonal conflict.
If you have two characters with different morals, philosophies, world views etc, and they argue about that, yes, that is interpersonal conflict. Conflict between characters does not have to result in strife, insults, hatred or friendships breaking up.
if you want character development in VOY, look to Kes (at least in her penultimate 2 episodes), 7of9, Tom Paris, B’Lana Torres, Harry Kim, and the Doctor.
Wait, you think these characters had development and arcs? Those were mostly flatlines (besides the Doctor). If younreally think that’s character development, that’s all I need to know to conclude discussing storytelling and fiction with you is pointless lol. Bye.
DS9’s interpersonal conflict were in context of being set on the outer fringe of Starfleet’s reach, showing how the goodness could be brought forth to where there’s conflict, where the ideals of the federation and starfleet have not yet reached and settled. None of Trek, from the start, was that everything is effortlessly hunky-dory la-la land positivity-ninnyism across the cultures of different species… it’s not all magically balanced already without effort. There’s great effort to balance and achieve peace, so we can all explore space, both inner and outer, together, forever, in peace.
Note the absence of interpersonal conflict among those of the federation? Even where there’s tension, the peace is kept, and friendships form. It’s not juvenile insanity. Even for those who set out to go into starfleet (or not), like with Nog and Jake. It’s still an aspirational hope for the future, even in interpersonal relations. Instead of the tension that is allowed, across the different species of aliens, being solely who are met by the crew of the star ship Enterprise, everybody’s brought together on the space station, Deep Space 9, with no running away. Everybody there, seeking a better future, even the antagonists, in their own way. Well considered characters, with their own perspectives and philosophies. RedLetterMedia recently did a quick two part run through of season 1 of DS9, in which they touch on some of these well thought out fun aspects: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5ozNRUW7Kw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXYFrc1-ES8
VOY’s little rubs of interpersonal conflict here and there, were almost entirely from the Maquis and Starfleet, learning to get along, forced together by circumstance. Generally more strictly in line with the principles of Star Trek, the same structure as Gene gave us, the crew get along (quite astonishingly, really, considering the radically different views the two crews have, ~ that they become one crew… how about that for putting aside the differences? We should all so aspire.).
Maybe I’d need to rewatch TNG to get what you’re on about there. I don’t recall TNG having nearly every line of dialogue be spitting foul mouthed adhominems in searing hateful tones, like SFA has. Nor even any such lines at all. But maybe I’m misremembering. It has been a few years (… Gosh, maybe about 7 or more years) since I last watched all of TNG. But I could understand the writers taking the cheap easy way out once slipped free from the living reigns of Gene Roddenberry.
Later TNG, DS9, VOY, may have pushed the boundaries. They didn’t betray the boundaries that defined what Trek is. They stayed consistent in that universe.
You don’t do a lot to make me stop laughing.
I haven’t watched Academy or care to do so. But thinking there was no interpersonal conflict between Starfleet personnel before or attribute it to being stationed in a borderland… DS9 started with interpersonal conflict between Sisko and Picard. The very appeal of DS9 was a commander/captain who defied Roddenberry’s principles. It doesn’t matter if that was explained with certain circumstances, it matters that that was part of why DS9 was good (being excellently written didn’t do damage either).
I didn’t state anything in that direction, and I couldn’t (since I haven’t watched Academy). I stated that TNG was best when interpersonal conflict was the vessel the writers conveyed the discussion of philosophies. Or just told interesting stories with.
My reductio-absurdist over-emphasis of the other side, aside, it was interpreted as strongly implied (stated by context) in:
and, given
might be why that was missed what I was referring to. Give it a go. You’ll see.
I don’t see heated and impassioned debate about the morality, metaphysics, philosophy, spirituality, ethics etc as interpersonal conflict. … But like I say, it’s been a few years, maybe I need to rewatch TNG’s later seasons to get an idea of what interpersonal conflict is there that you’re referring to.
PS, if you want character development in VOY, look to Kes (at least in her penultimate 2 episodes), 7of9, Tom Paris, B’Lana Torres, Harry Kim, and the Doctor. … Oh wait, that’s most characters. But yeah, is much like the ship, near blown to smithereens and then next episode, reset back to normal like nothing happened. DS9’s character growths was stronger, as was more the intent with it, than to have a consistent platform for starship space exploration stories[1]. But even after O’Brian spent several simulated years in a prison, he seemed back to normal next episode. Yeah, there’s lots to pick at it each, if you really want to go out of your way to break the suspension of disbelief and break out of it, and into critical analysis. Harder work to get into suspension of disbelief with the KurtzmanTrek.
[1: weird side idea...]
it’s kinda like how western tropical astrology moved the dial to fit the people, and eastern sidereal moved the dial to fit the stars. ~ okay, weird esoteric side notion. n_n
If you have two characters with different morals, philosophies, world views etc, and they argue about that, yes, that is interpersonal conflict. Conflict between characters does not have to result in strife, insults, hatred or friendships breaking up.
Wait, you think these characters had development and arcs? Those were mostly flatlines (besides the Doctor). If younreally think that’s character development, that’s all I need to know to conclude discussing storytelling and fiction with you is pointless lol. Bye.
Largely less arcs, and more mere slight curves.