Fair enough

No one is worshipping cockshott. “Cults of personality” are a liberal concept. What matters is ruthless criticism of all that exists, ie evaluating all claims of any individual or organization critically. I’m not even a cockshott fan, I just heard he was decent and saw a couple decent videos. I have yet to do my own critical evaluation.

Not to start this struggle session again, but his prostitution take isn’t that bad. Under capitalism prostitution is a sorry means of survival or petty bourgeois lifestyle. “Sex work” under socialism is an absurdity. People can fuck whomever and still get the minimums for life, but it doesn’t make sense to pour money into an unproductive industry. If anything - as cockshott implies - stay at home parents are worthy of monetary compensation for their contribution to society.

I was aware of the terf stuff and unequal exchange stuff, but didn’t have much exposure to it. I will look into those links.

Idk but I was given this: https://docs.google.com/document/d/16bue8TQo-knWAKlkpuNBnePOs7j7KDh11aDoNa_dPO0/edit

I’ve literally read that book and watched his interviews.

Yes this has strayed, but expelling people who support black national liberation is certainly dogmatic and patsoc esque.

The communist movement is largely decolonial unless you’re some silly PatSoc.

Remember those times CPUSA kicked out people who support national liberation and condemned Hamas?

Nepal is not an example of “revisionism.”

What do you know about Nepal? They had an effective revolutionary movement and ended up compromising for “communists” in power of a still capitalist system.

I’m not ending the conversation. I was not attacking your suspicion of potential anti-China content (without actually watching it, mind you), but expanding the conversation into why you might not like when people talk about revisionism in other situations.

Labels are silly. Call me a decolonial Marxist. I am generally pro-China, but am currently delving into other theory to form an all sided view. The point of the quotation is that CPUSA legalist nonsense is revisionist.

I am suggesting that you don’t like when people criticize revisionism because you support revisionism.

Of course you want to be pragmatic. If conditions are too bad to even start waging war you may do other things while imperialist power worsens. Still it is necessary, if difficult. I still need to research the PCP but they faced a significant amount of repression and were relatively successful before ultimately losing. The Peruvian government sterilized thousands of indigenous women with the explicit intent to prevent people who would become guerrillas from being born.

Yes, the Mao informed position is that nationalist alliances against imperialism may be practically necessary.

If someone gets offended seeing the word “revisionist” you know what they are. I don’t trust anyone who doesn’t criticize revisionists. “Revisionism” should not shut down conversation but lead to discussions surrounding what errors were made. Everyone should criticize both dogmatism and improper pragmatism. I know your party falls into much dogmatism itself. You use the same tired electoralist/legalist strategy that supports settler colonialism and accomplishes nothing. You dogmatically cite old CPUSA leaders and continue their failed strategies with minimal critical thought.

Revisionism is a great scourge on socialist history leading to failures from the US to Nepal. Dogmatism sucks too, but they often go hand in hand.

Fellow Traveler makes clear he supports the USSR til the end and is hopeful about China.

Even fucking capitalists admit China is not capitalist…

Last I used that argument I got the response “why tf should I expect people who don’t know what socialism is to tell me what is socialist.” I didn’t know what to say. They’d say the same if China were just a rival capitalist tbh. Republicans and democrats both get slandered as socialists.

That said, I am hopeful about China and no one in their right mind wants war with China. Everyone can agree the rest of the world needs to have it’s revolution before China can dissolve into full communism.

I agree, I just find it useful to understand why people can’t get behind China as socialist even if I disagree with them.

I had the same take before I watched the video.

I can’t take seriously anyone who seriously questions if China is socialist or not.

We should question everything actually. Why should I support China if I do not investigate the reality of the country?

The video is accurate to the current state of China. They still have a bourgeoisie but there is major proletarian influence. Their definition of socialism is different and he explains deng’s theory. It is a nuanced investigation.

My take which aligns with his is that China will not go full communism until the world is ready - ie when the world proletariat pushes for it. China is progressive but they are not exporting revolution.

My disagreement with fellow traveler is it seems he would prefer they export revolution. The USSR showed that policy was a failure because it makes you look like an interventionist and people’s movements look inauthentic.

? Trying to wait it out? Sure China’s interests may be chilling while the west declines, but we are in a decent position to sabotage things from the heart of the beast. Yeah, we won’t convince all the petty bourgeois jerks and fools but we can organize national minorities and anti-imperialist solidarity. China won’t save us. We need to save us.

It’s practice in secrecy and illegal work. I know it’s not guerrilla warfare, but “ML” parties seem to just do silly legal things. Prepare for revolution. Read the book.

Read the collection. Yeah, don’t be stupid. Study your conditions. But orgs like PSL will NOT be ready when war breaks out if they don’t have disciplined underground cadres with skills with guns and guerrilla warfare. Don’t be an anarchist just assassinating random politicians. If you study local particularities you’ll probably find that destroying arms manufacturing for example is a good thing you can start doing sooner than later. Read Mao, don’t just decide you want to do violence.

The thing with sources like the NYT is that it makes sense to trust what they admit which would be against their interests. They want the US to be able to look unstoppable and crush such movements with a stroke of a finger, but if that’s not the case they’d want to fear monger and tell people what is threatening their power. If congress had to meet to figure out what to do about the situation that lends credence to the claim that the revolutionary forces were on par with the imperialists.

That said, I have more research to do and am kind of playing devil’s advocate. I already intend to read that work and more that opposes it.

Some of my favorites:

Fellow traveler

Paul cockshott

Elliot sang

Lily alexandre

Socialism for all